for president obama he's getting a lot of advice. don't be arrogant, don't respond always to governor romney, don't attack. but i think the most important thing he has to do to win this debate or to come out feeling as though he's done what he needs to do is talk about the progress that has been made, small as it may be, he wants to emphasize there is some progress that's been made and get people to continue asto feel as though there is some progress. >> can a debate really change things? we saw the clip, of course, of gerald ford, that is one case where he came out with a ten-point deficit just that switch from what he had said against jimmy carter and that was the race. >> we can look back at individual debates and say that had an effect on rate for at least a moment. john kerry had a good couple debates -- >> but he still didn't win. >> i think that for governor romney, he needs to have something happen here tonight in which there is at least for the moment a change in perceptions. whether that turns around the whole race, i mean